Within the Ok-pop capital of Seoul, a high-stakes battle is unfolding. Min Hee-jin, a family title on the planet of Korean music, is a celebrated inventive director behind a few of the greatest teams from the previous 20 years. Her newest, and arguably best, creation is a lady group referred to as NewJeans, which she launched in 2022 underneath the corporate Hybe—the identical firm behind BTS.
At Hybe, Min ran each the inventive and enterprise facet of her personal label referred to as ADOR, or All Doorways One Room, which generated $83 million in 2023 by NewJeans’ document gross sales and its model ambassadorships with each mainstream manufacturers like Apple and Coca-Cola, and the luxurious labels Chanel, Gucci, Burberry, Dior, and Louis Vuitton. The group has stood out with its retro pop songs and nostalgic visuals, and landed on “better of 2023” lists from publications together with Pitchfork and Rolling Stone. (ADOR’s unprecedented accomplishments earned HYBE its spot on our 2024 Most Innovative Companies record.)
The connection between Min and father or mother firm Hybe, which is run by chairman Bang Si Hyuk (colloquially often called “Hitman” Bang and the impresario BTS), seemed to be mutually helpful. However now the 2 are in open warfare.
Min is accusing Hybe of launching a competing lady group referred to as ILLIT that appears to be channeling NewJeans’s sound and elegance. (Even the ladies themselves resembled NewJeans—a lot in order that many commenters believed ILLIT was NewJeans throughout its first announcement.) “Hybe, a number one firm in Ok-pop, is blinded by short-term earnings and is mass-producing unoriginality by copying profitable cultural content material with out hesitation,” Min’s label declared in a statement earlier this week. Hybe, in the meantime, has accused Min of making an attempt to spin off the label with exterior traders. It’s requested her to step down as CEO, and has mentioned that it’s reporting her to the police for breach of belief. To date, she is refusing.
The battle is ongoing. Min just lately held a tearful press convention in Seoul to solidify her place, the place she claimed that Hybe prevented her from selling NewJeans within the earliest days of the group. Hybe is promising to assist NewJeans’ return despite this battle. However it seems that Min—probably the most highly effective lady in Ok-pop—might lose management of her cultural creation.
Final November, earlier than all this got here to a head, I visited the Hybe places of work for an unique interview with Min. I used to be concerned with talking with Min about her untraditional entrance into the world of music: She established herself in Ok-pop as a graphic designer after which a inventive director. The dialog, which lasted two and a half hours, was frank, wide-ranging, and generally emotional, as Min shared insights into how she designed probably the most standard musical acts on the planet, why she believes her background in design makes her higher at enterprise, and the place she dreamed that she will take Ok-pop subsequent.
With the way forward for NewJeans unsure, we current a calmly abridged model of the interview beneath.
Making the Band
So I’ve to confess, I’ve by no means been into Ok-pop. However . . . I really like NewJeans! And I’m making an attempt to determine why.
With NewJeans, I used to be making an attempt to focus on individuals who weren’t beforehand! I would like them to develop into Ok-pop followers. The Ok-pop trade has historically been extra centered on Ok-pop fanatics and “core followers,” however I needed to have a bunch that everyone, no matter their gender and age, might love.
Properly let’s begin with the title of the group. What made you select it?
I began off my profession as a graphic designer, after which I grew to become a inventive designer and now a producer. I feel this background is my weapon. As a result of I feel a picture could be expressed in graphics, but additionally in sound. There are phrases that sound subtle and there are phrases that sound form of corny or boring.
I needed the title to be a-national, which implies it could possibly be a Korean group or U.S. group or sound like a European group. I needed it to be gender-neutral and have much less of a female vibe. As a result of regardless that we have been creating a lady group, I needed the crew picture to be cool, chill, subtle. The title NewJeans additionally has these form of retro, classic vibes, nearly like a male rock band title. [I also thought] it will be good for the Gen Zers as a result of it sounded actually simple and concise. I assumed that if we use that form of a reputation, it will likely be very efficient at tearing down psychological boundaries and touching folks immediately.
Plus, NewJeans is a mixture of two quite simple phrases. And the straightforward stuff is at all times the perfect.
Because the inventive director at SM Leisure, you helped create Women’ Era, SHINee, EXO, and Crimson Velvet—a few of the hottest Ok-pop teams in historical past. What’s the particular perspective you carry to the trade?
I’m not an individual who jumped into this trade as a result of I beloved it. I felt form of in another way about it and needed to vary it.
I wasn’t actually concerned with idol teams rising up as a result of their fashion of music was very completely different from those that I personally most popular. If I needed to choose my fashion, it will lean extra towards indie music. I’m notably concerned with jazz.
I at all times had the thought that pop music was not likely my factor, however I needed to vary that mindset so I joined SM. Nonetheless once I began, I used to be only a plain worker, so I couldn’t do all the pieces the best way I needed. I simply did what I might inside my position as an artwork director. However with every passing yr, my profession grew, and I grew to become a chief inventive director. However you understand: art work and music are inseparable. With a view to actualize the complete image that I had in my head, I needed to have my fashion of music. So I began to have that need to create my sort of music.
I needed to have all of those come collectively: my definition of cool music, with my definition of a cool image, with my definition of an awesome enterprise. Enterprise is, in fact, necessary as a result of in the event you don’t become profitable with artwork, it will be form of ineffective.
And with ADOR, you stepped into a task as president, the place you’ll be able to management all these selections?
I put on the hats of each a producer and president. Typically, folks separate the inventive facet and the enterprise facet. However I assumed that the 2 issues needed to be collectively in an effort to be good.
I consider that an awesome inventive must be accompanied by a enterprise [grounding] as a result of you need to be commercially profitable for good designs and good inventive to unfold. And since listening has such an impression on the best way folks really feel, the music market is larger than the artwork market—and extra mass-market and business.
However my first precedence [at ADOR] wasn’t creating wealth. I simply needed to make a variety of cool stuff and have folks unable to withstand falling in love with it and buying it—and then become profitable.
A New Enterprise Plan
What did you hope to perform whenever you began ADOR?
I needed to unfold magnificence—properly, what appears lovely to me.
I don’t actually agree with the individuals who search exterior consultants once they’re working their very own enterprise. I do know finest about my enterprise. It’s not that I’ve an MBA, however based mostly on my 20 years of expertise on this discipline and all the teachings that I’ve realized alongside the best way, I needed to compile that and implement it with my very own label. And since I’m a creator, I assumed that I might be capable to do enterprise properly.
It turned out to be true as a result of inside simply two months of NewJeans’ debut, we began making a revenue, and we have been in a position to pay the ladies. That is very uncommon for Ok-pop. Individuals are by no means in a position to guess the way it occurred as a result of I’m not a composer and never a [traditional] enterprise individual. Individuals normally straight up ask, “How on Earth did you earn a lot cash?” However for an individual like me who made cash by an uncommon method, it’s apparent I’ve an uncommon story. And it’s very laborious for me to inform that in a simple method.
Most Ok-pop teams don’t come anyplace close to NewJeans’ degree of success. However that was certainly not assured. Why did you chart a unique course for your self at ADOR?
To me, my method was simpler—as a result of I didn’t perceive the standard method of doing enterprise. Revenue is all about output versus enter. To me, it appeared like there was an excessive amount of pointless enter. And simply slicing down on that enter would resolve all the issues.
NewJeans fairly shortly landed partnerships with blue-chip manufacturers, together with Apple and Coca-Cola. What was your philosophy behind these partnerships?
These massive corporations don’t actually pay some huge cash. I’m not saying that they paid us a bit of cash, however there have been different corporations that have been comparatively much less identified that needed to leverage us to enhance their model repute. They have been prepared to supply extra, however I didn’t signal with them.
If I have been simply to think about our short-term revenue, I would need to select the model that’s prepared to supply probably the most cash. However I don’t select individuals who I work with based mostly on absolutely the amount of cash that they provide; I simply take into consideration potential worth. I feel lots of people make errors alongside that line. They’re very drawn to speedy cash.
As for Apple and Coca-Cola, I by no means pitched them. My first enterprise philosophy is to have folks come to me.
You’re constructing demand from provide.
I knew that if I made good music and complex ideas that individuals would need it, want it, and are available to me. And I used to be optimistic that if I make one thing that I like and am happy with, different folks will need to have it too. I felt that most individuals have been pondering much less of the essence [of what they were building], and have been extra obsessive about realizing easy methods to make merchandise promote quick and easy methods to trick folks into believing that this was enticing. My philosophy was to not trick myself.
I put a variety of effort and thought into creating good high quality, good essence. I assumed that if I might simply focus extra on creating the perfect essence, it will make my life simpler with the second half, [the business]. To me it felt like different folks have been doing it the opposite method round. And this felt like a possibility to me.
It’s fascinating how, with NewJeans, model partnerships will not be only a money-making enterprise. They’re an expression that’s elementary to the group’s id. For instance, NewJeans plopped bunny ears on the Apple brand—marking the primary time such a factor had ever been carried out with the protected trademark.
Apple was fully fantastic with [having its logo amended] as a result of we had it so well-designed. Lots of people ask me how we received Apple to allow us to use their brand. I simply advised them my thought, they usually believed it.
Earlier than we launched NewJeans, my shifting from SM to Hybe made the information as a result of I used to be going to a competitor. I used that hype to my benefit. I achieved a variety of issues once I was at SM, and I left as a result of I used to be not likely happy with my life there. However I’m not saying that I got here right here as a result of I really like this firm; I wanted a spot the place I might actualize my imaginative and prescient.
What made me really feel form of good was, some luxurious manufacturers, even earlier than we had the information out about NewJeans—simply once they have been conscious of the truth that I used to be going to create a lady group—they got here as much as me for a deal. To me it was form of proof that I did my job properly till now, as a result of these luxurious manufacturers had religion in me. I’m very grateful for that.
Ok-pop followers appear to take model ambassadorships so personally.
There’s a conflict between boy bands and lady teams in Korea over whose ambassadorship is extra high-end. It’s very bizarre. And the way infantile is that this, combating over whose model is best?
A Sound Financial system
I’m wondering how you consider interactivity. We’ve talked quite a bit about music, however leisure right this moment is past multimodal. There’s social media, apps . . . it appears like we’re at a time of convergence the place all the pieces’s mixing and mixing.
To me, all the pieces that’s occurring with social media is like other ways of having fun with music. I’m most within the essence, and fewer in all the opposite strategies and completely different stuff surrounding that. So in the event you begin to make music with TikTok and Reels in thoughts, the music will change into too lighthearted and there can be too many restrictions. I feel in the event you might simply put out good stuff, folks will discover what they’re searching for.
[The NewJeans hit] Tremendous Shy is a music with repetitive verses and [doesn’t have] a extremely robust hook. It’s nearly like Justin Bieber’s Peaches. Because it’s a repetitive music, folks have been asking whether or not we have been focusing on for that music to develop into successful on Shorts, however that’s not the case. I simply let the music be the best way it needed to be.
For many Ok-pop songs, there’s at all times an intro after which the climax and the stress relieves once more, as a result of folks suppose that having loops is boring. There should be several types of music! But everyone desires to make a music that follows the normal guidelines of successful music.
How do you supply the songs themselves?
We purchase songs from completely different composers. We simply give them a short steering a couple of idea. We don’t push them to make successful music or give them actually detailed instructions to observe. We simply depart them to make the music that they will actually make finest.
It’s a must to let the composers do what they need to do. And I don’t actually consider in stitching collectively completely different components from completely different songs, I simply need to use the music in its entirety. There’s a purpose why now we have composers make the songs! Typically, we’ll alter the highest line, however we by no means go so far as to break the actual intention of the music; as a result of in that case, there is no such thing as a purpose to make use of that music within the first place.
I attempt to acquire as many good songs as potential, after which I curate the songs after. That method, we are able to have one other layer of refinement, have it organized as soon as extra. Nowadays folks use the phrase producer form of interchangeably as a composer. I’m a producer, however I don’t make songs. I plan methods.
Right now, you see a variety of musicians who’ve spun out to develop into inventive administrators, who’ve style strains and different endeavors, however you don’t see the reverse occur as a lot.
Really, to me, inventive course comes second [and the music comes first]. I would like inventive directing to focus on the music that I need to share with different folks.
Do you continue to take heed to jazz?
My favourite sort of music is the jazzy-lounge sort. I take heed to all sorts of genres, however my favourite musician is Astrud Gilberto.
(Min takes out her iPhone, and performs The Lady from Ipanema.)
I cried after listening to this music for the primary time once I was 8 years outdated. The explanation why this music has a particular that means to me was as a result of it was the primary jazz music to be primary on the Billboard charts. And jazz music isn’t usually on the highest of the Billboard charts, proper? This grew to become an actual inspiration to me. It gave me hope that my sort of music, or the kind of music that I used to be making an attempt to do, could possibly be primary as properly.
Once I’m actually stressed and exhausted, I’ll simply play these favourite songs from my childhood, and I really feel my thoughts forgetting about all of these difficult issues that I’ve hanging over my head. I’m going again to why I began this factor within the first place, and what made my coronary heart race once I was younger. It’s very troublesome to place in phrases, however I can really feel that vitality that comes when folks put their all the pieces right into a music. And I really feel that with this music. So what they did is inspiring to me, residing in a totally completely different nation, in a totally completely different technology. I feel that is the ability of creation.
I need to make NewJeans’s music so that it’ll nonetheless sound actually lovely after 10, 20 years. You by no means throw away your favourite pair of denims—your favourite pair of clothes you’ll be able to put on each single day. I feel the form of garments which you could put on each single day are like pop music.
You’ve mentioned that you simply need to create music that you simply love, however it feels just like the music you deeply love shouldn’t be essentially business music.
The songs that I really like, they may not be well-known, however they at all times have that one thing that offers them the potential. I feel I’ve the ear to establish that in songs.
I like to recommend a variety of songs on my Instagram. And about 90% of the songs I like to recommend will not be that well-known. However in the event you take heed to it, you’ll know that each single a kind of songs has that particular one thing that might make them successful music. I actually love discovering these hidden gems and sharing them with the world. As a result of there’s so many nice issues on the market on the planet, however solely a really small a part of it’s launched to the pop scene.
Wanting Forward
You’re so centered on NewJeans, however I assume with ADOR that you simply plan to work with a number of bands as your final purpose. You additionally executive produced the debut album from BTS’s V, Layover, which got here out this previous September.
I didn’t actually have the purpose to make a number of teams [at ADOR]. My solely purpose was to create great things. I’m not the kind of one that plans issues out vigorously. I simply have an enormous normal plan. And inside the tough plan that I’ve in my head is that if any fascinating issues come up alongside the best way, I need to seize these alternatives.
I by no means anticipated to work on V’s solo album. He requested me for my assist, and he’s so standard, so I assumed that it was alternative for me to strive new issues with much less strain. The title music [on Layover, has an intro that consists of just iPhone texting sounds that] is nearly one-minute lengthy. That’s not business in any respect. It’s a creative experiment. And it was a strive I might go for as a result of he’s actually standard.
Some BTS followers need to examine how properly one member’s album does over one other member’s. BTS is a bunch that’s been round for 10 years now. They did their responsibility, mainly. So I feel it’s time to focus much less on the stats and simply take pleasure in their music—[let them] do what they need to do.
My mindset once I was producing for V was to assist him do music that he might actually take pleasure in. In business phrases, there wasn’t a purpose for me to work on that album. It was only a one-off factor. It was not that we have been going to work collectively repeatedly going ahead. And I used to be busy sufficient with NewJeans. So me diverting a few of my time to that challenge might have been a bit of dangerous. However his intentions have been actually pure. I needed to make him good recollections or possibly give him a present. In contrast to NewJeans, he doesn’t should obsess over numbers and issues. And personally, I simply hope that NewJeans received’t both.
What do you need NewJeans to consider?
Once we do our work, we simply need to keep in mind the truth that we’re cool, no matter we do is nice, and no matter outcome comes out, we simply need to embrace it. With a view to preserve this sort of chill perspective, I’ve to juggle various things like I discussed earlier. It’s actually troublesome to become profitable whereas trying cool. However I suppose I’m aiming for an inconceivable purpose.
With NewJeans, I need to [help] them make enjoyable, completely happy recollections—one thing that they will actually look again on and revel in even once they develop outdated. They selected to work with me [instead of] going to highschool. Our contract is for seven years. And 7 years is nearly like three years of highschool and 4 years of faculty. So what I mentioned to them at first was, “Consider this as finding out with me for seven years.” They’re so younger, and I needed them to think about this expertise as finding out, and to not focus an excessive amount of on the numbers.
I feel whenever you’re working with such younger ladies and [you’re] any individual who owns this enterprise, you need to have an moral sense of thoughts. What I needed to do was, identical to college, I needed to show them ways in which would assist them stay a extremely completely happy life in a while.
I feel I had these ideas as a result of we’re within the Ok-pop idol scene and since I’ve to work with actually younger ladies. Up to now, folks used to say the Ok-pop method of making idols was like a manufacturing facility. The coaching system is completely different from the best way issues are carried out in america, however there are misconceptions round it.
How so?
I feel we get racially discriminated in opposition to, in a method, as a result of our cultures are completely different. However Ok-pop is evolving and advancing. And I feel having these values in my thoughts will assist me going ahead, and it’ll additionally assist in remodeling this enterprise for the higher—me placing a variety of thought into easy methods to work along with younger ladies on this enterprise.
Suppliers, so to talk, of Ok-pop have to enhance themselves [and address problems in the industry]. However the shoppers have to enhance themselves as properly. Even once I’m actually making an effort to do issues the higher method, the shoppers won’t be capable to discover it. However they should have that endurance. Really, I should have that endurance to attend till that individual on the different finish begins to note that I’m making an effort to do issues higher. Individuals are traumatized by what occurred up to now [in the K-pop industry], so I nonetheless should be sincere and present to them constantly over a protracted time frame that I actually imply it.
What do you think about for the way forward for NewJeans?
If we find yourself doing even higher, meaning we are able to take much more [risk]. Finally, I need to create a world the place there aren’t any stats on the performances of albums. I don’t like arts being influenced by how properly all the pieces does. So I would like our group to do very well, to explode, to develop into the highest, after which say out loud to the world that these stats, these indicators, will not be actually necessary.
Individuals will solely take heed to you whenever you’re primary. Individuals belief you, consider you have got some extent, whenever you’re primary. So if we might actually stand on prime after which quit on all of the business stats, then that can actually ship out a message to the neighborhood and alter a variety of issues.
I suppose my final purpose sounds actually idealistic: a world with out stats or competitors. I’m not likely certain whether or not this may work in fashionable society, however I suppose it will not be too dangerous for one individual to a minimum of have this purpose in thoughts in a world like this. I don’t like competing or arguing that any individual’s higher than any individual else as a result of inside artwork there could be no such factor. It’s completely different; it’s equal.
This dialog has been condensed and edited.
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